When it comes to handle material, both knives have options available in either plastic or metal. So, it is quite harder than most other steel variants and retains its edge sharp for a long period. Ive found that most makers harden S30V too much, making it prone to chipping at the edge. Below I have shown the difference in carbide volume between AEB-L, CPM-10V, and Rex 121 to get an idea of how much more carbide there is in the high edge retention steels. 14C28N knives offer excellent corrosion resistance and toughness. Honestly, yes, because its perfect steel for your knife, besides it depends on which knife, so when youre talking about chef knives, then 14c28n would be an ideal pick thanks to professional corrosion resistance and edge retention. It had better than expected corrosion resistance due to the lack of chromium carbides, a behavior also seen in MagnaCut. The both blade are equally wear resistant. Manage Settings The studies confirmed that the primary controlling factors are hardness of the steel, volume of carbides, and hardness of the carbides. Non-stainless steels can be heat treated to 66 Rc or even higher depending on the particular steel. Interesting. Elmax It mainly made for knife and it high in Chromium for excellent corrosion resistance. The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. Anthony Sculimbrene authors the blog EverydayCommentary.com. Toughness 3, Edge Ret 8, Cor Res 4? However, even steel with the best corrosion resistance can rust without proper care. The 1.4116 I tested has large carbides in it which is presumably the reason for low measured toughness: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/05/26/new-micrographs-of-42-knife-steels/. Generally this is code for difficulty in abrading away steel. It doesnt hold an edge well, but its so easy to sharpen that you can get it back to razor sharpness in a few minutes. The ESEE had significant edge damage while the MagnaCut knife did not. My name is Jonathan M, and Im a passionate Mechanical Engineer, a knife enthusiast, and the author of this website. compare different heat treats of the same component, it lacks a theoretical foundation and its not clear how to relate it to the real world. BD1 is excellent budget steel, very similar in composition and performance to GIN-1, a Japanese steel used a decade ago by Spyderco. In general, steels look worse as you go up in hardness because the toughness is reduced by more than the edge retention is increased. 14c28n steel and D2 steel are both high-quality knife steels. FRN I would think that the label applies to either the line or the outlier, but probably not both unless the outlier is a measurement error. This doesnt necessarily mean they have terrible toughness, but they have limitations. Poor availability may effectively increase cost of steel. Mostly it has been presented piecemeal with all of the studies that we have done on optimizing heat treatments of different steels like CPM-CruWear, AEB-L, 52100, etc. That mixture has one goal in mind: making a great steel for people worried about rust and corrosion. Its hard enough, tough enough, and stain-resistant enough. 14c28n steel would be a great pick thanks to its high retention and corrosion, it would be great for a normal EDC knife. And Michael Fitzgerald, Tim Marais, and Head VI for increasing their contributions. Cronidur 30 The maximum edge retention available in this group is not particularly high because most of the wear resistance comes from iron carbide, also called cementite, which is the softest of the different carbide types. S45VN However, I would argue that pure material removal is usually not the limiting step for ease in sharpening. . Carpenter produces this powder steel. The chart below has dotted lines which indicate the average effect of hardness for any given steel. Spyderco and Cold Steel have used it, though Cold Steel recently switched to S35VN due to availability concerns. If the steel is overheated in austenitizing, very large reductions in toughness are possible. You will get an ultra-sharp edge with 14C28N knives. Therefore I will be showing the ratings of the steels graphically in terms of toughness-edge retention balance, where steels that are high and to the right have the best combination, and you choose the steel based on the level of toughness or edge retention necessary for the knife. 14C28N VS D2 Attributes: 14c28n: D2 . SUS410 In a pocket knife the total amount of steel is rather small. How do its properties compare to other steels? Very obtuse edges resist chipping better but dont hold their edge as long and dont cut as well. That says to me theres a measurable abrasive quality to wood for sure. Toughness is a measure of how much resistance a steel has to fracturing. There seem to be a lot of modern steels that get related to D2, but OTOH just saying a steel is similar to D2 seems to kill interest in it. In thick forms, like a fixed blade, 1095 isa tough, low-cost steel. D2 is a high carbon, high chromium die steel and is the highest carbon alloy tool and die steel typically used in knife making. So, its hard steel is easy to sharpen. To choose the best knife for you between the 14C28N and the D2, look at the steel properties and ensure that they suit your knife needs and lifestyle. Kershaw, Spyderco and Schrade are among some of the popular users of this steel.. 14C28N. Its a very hard steel and is exceptionally difficult to sharpen. s30v Read about my tests in this article. Why wouldnt it be possible to make a damascus steel out of (say) AEB-L and s90V, or wouldnt that gain the best of both? Below shows charts summarizing tests of different steels for the major categories discussed so far, low alloy steels, high alloy non-stainless steels, and stainless steels. Between the assisted open, weird looking texture designs, and the stainless steel handle, the Cannonball has a lot of features I don't normally like, but even I have to admit it's a good design for the price. D2 at 58 hard will cut much more rope than AEB-L at 62. Rowens heat treat on ESEE knives that use 1095 is exceptional; KA-BARs is less so. This is a bit of a guess because I cant find un-notched Charpy data on it. first there might have been some annealing going on (even if its was a microscopic level) and the steels might have reacted differently. Being stainless is not an on or off property, and some stainless steels are more resistant to corrosion than others. Properties: 14C28N: D2: Edge retention: 4/10: 7/10: Ease of sharpening: 6/10: 3/10: Corrosion resistance: 4/10: 4/10: Toughness: 6/10: 6/10: CIVIVI Knives Elementum Folding Pocket Knife 2.96" D2 Satin Blade . Required fields are marked *. Thanks to its very high hardness (64-66 HRc compared to the average of 58-62 HRc), ZDP-189 can be ground thinner and sharpened less often. The Vargo Sobata 398 is unlike any other knife on this list. I cant seem to match steel to the SS data points on the toughness/tcc graph. With conventional steels this limited vanadium additions to about 4-5%, and this was greatly expanded when powder metallurgy was developed. Steel produced in China is generally less expensive. I have a bachelor's degree in Mechanical engineering with a specialization in material science. I think you wrote an article a bit ago on CTS-XHP and concluded that like D2 and ZDP-189 it wasnt really stainless (although stainless is a somewhat arbitrary line). Hes already done a three part series on cryogenic treatment: Corrosion is not just about cosmetics and rusting, however, but can also affect edge performance. LC200N is produced with a special technique to add high nitrogen, giving steel excellent corrosion resistance on the top! D2 steel is a ordinary tool steel and knife steel. The steel is an air-hardness tool steel that is considered semi-stainless because of its high chromium content. D2. This is about comparing steels to each other rather than a limitation of an individual steel. A proprietary steel and heat treat developed by Busse Knives, INFI is an excellent performer and one of the best steels for big choppers on the market. Where did it come from? Therefore you will use it for a long time without requiring frequent sharpening. In nitrogen steels, nitrogen is used as the iron-hardener instead of carbon, thus limiting the possibility of rusting. 14C28N Or even a 7 in both categories. So you can estimate how much a change in hardness would affect edge retention by following the slope of those lines. Thats a tiny difference, but in combination with the 420HC disparity, it conceals a full point difference between 420HC and 440A: 7.6 vs. 8.6. its like with cars, most of them are not a corvette or a porsche. 14C28N steel is known to offer the highest toughness levels out there. There is a powder form, CPM-D2, and PSF27 is also very chemically similar. : at a given toughness, magncut will have better edge retention in real life applications than s90v if it has optimal geometry (or maybe it wouldnt, just an example). drop point Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. But it doesnt have great wear resistance and thus doesnt hold an edge particularly well. Would be great if some manufactures changed their steels based on this information. Uddeholm lists it as somewhat worse in toughness than A2 but somewhat better in wear resistance. Also, if you want a fishing knife, 14c28n steel will survive better in wet areas than D2. No mainstream companies use SM100, and the niche makers that do usually charge more than $1,000 for knives with SM100 blades. This is a non-powder Japanese steel used primarily in Spyderco knives. D2 steel However, there are other factors. Due to its higher Chromium content, S30v is a lot less likely to corrode/rust than the D2 Steel. 14C28N is offered on midprice knives and is one of the better steels on a dollar-for-dollar basis. The value being slightly different doesnt mean its an outlier or measurement error. Available in Kershaw knives (as of 2012) and in other . S110V has improved corrosion resistance at the cost of some toughness compared to S90V. And a label: AEB-L. Any idea where it would be on the hardness and toughness scales? 1% saltwater will separate between other stainless steels. Steel is a combination of iron and carbon with other elements. I especially appreciate the geometry/edge retention/toughness comparison with photos. The study of steel is now so complex and nuanced that one can acquire a graduate degree in the subject and still learn new things every day. All rights reserved. A2 knives need care taken to avoid rust and are often coated to inhibit corrosion. Spyderco is the only production company using this steel, though Michael Gavik of Gavko knives produced a number of customs in LC 200N. Almost all consumer-grade pocket knives, EDC knives, fixed blade knives, etc will be in the range of a Rockwell Hardness rating of 54 to 65 HRC. It's like the difference between average 420HC and Buck's 420HC with the Bos heat treatment, only from a better starting point. This is basically a retrofit of a very old steel, adding more carbon to the recipe of 420 (hence the HC for high carbon). in relation to hardness). However, high wear resistance means that abrasives are used up more rapidly, more careful grinding is necessary to avoid overheating, finishing and polishing is much more time consuming, etc. They made planer blades out D2 for its edge retention. The most balanced is CPM-MagnaCut which is in an area all by itself on the chart. But a few overly vocal forgers were making claims about it that clearly were not true especially when comparing it to 5160. A2 Knife Steel Air-hardened tool steel. How would n680 compare to m690? Importing steel from Europe to the USA, or vice versa, generally increases the cost. Sure if you dont want stainless steel fine, but there are plenty other carbon steels out there much better than 5160. show very different and even inversed behaviour (e.g. In use, its very similar to 440C and VG-10. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Vanadium carbides are very large with conventional production of steels but are very small with powder metallurgy. YMMV Spyderco announced Native 5 Salt with magnacut, but I saw test of magnacut with salt water and it grows corrosionso Salt with magnacut could be a flop. The majority of knives target 63 Rc or below so this limitation of stainless steels does not always come into play but can be an important factor for certain knives targeting high performance and thin edges. Here, youll learn the different factors that go into each steel, ratings for a wide variety of steel alloys, and youll get some recommendations for types of knives different types of steel work well for. A2 is a tool steel renowned for toughness. Carbon steels are those that have primarily carbon added to them with some Mn or Si as well. As from features, for presenting d2 continue to grow in the knife industry, generally because of their working performance and reasonable price, a lot of superior low budget knives are building their reputation. The only thing putting me off immediately buying the p135 is the 14c28n steel. Steels 7Cr and below arent worth your time or money. Time and use have proven this to be quite accurate. However the 14c28n steel would be great for an EDC knife with typical usage. The D2 version is heavier and harder, but doesn't cut as smoothly. second it might be of importance which way you sharpened because if against the edge the steels might have reacted differently to the contamination remaining on the edge. it seems like all the pieces are in place to develop an algorithm for this. Editors note: This article was first published in May 2015 and was most recently updated on May 25, 2020. Spyderco has produced several production knives with Maxamet, and the steel debuted on the ZT0888. There is no such thing as a steel that is a 10 in both toughness and edge retention. Theyll be fully attributed to you with website and Patreon links, obviously. I was struggling to simplify all the Rockwell/Youngs Modulus stuff for readers when I came across your site. European steel company Sandvik produces 14C28N, a non-powder metallurgy steel. It would be really useful to have the raw data that backs the charts that you produce. They have many similarities, including their high hardness, strength, and wear resistance. Using controlled furnace heat treating resulted in toughness around 23-28 ft-lbs at 61-62 Rc, while the knifemaker heat treated specimens were 7 ft-lbs or below. The high hardness makes it all but impossible to sharpen and machine. 14C28N Vs D2 . vanax Sandvik 14C28N steel offers excellent corrosion resistance, exceptional toughness, good edge retention, and is easier to sharpen. 14C28N vs D2: Overview 14C28N steel is a high-end stainless steel created by the Swedish company Sandvik. LC200N has similar properties to those two but with saltwater levels of corrosion resistance. 14C28N is the highest-selling steel of Sandvik, a Swedish steel company. The brand Bark River uses A2 in many models. CPM-REX 121 and Maxamet are both in this category. It improves wear resistance and hardenability. the problem is in the innumerable combinations of grades, grains sizes and coatings available. 14C28N steel is not very hard steel which makes it easier to sharpen. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. And Ive done a lot of experimental work on knife steels where I feel more confident in my own ratings. This is one of the fundamental tradeoffs in steel. There are significant differences between them because 14C28N is stainless steel, while D2 steel is a semi-stainless tool steel. Did you change the estimate based on more testing? I see very little about cryo outside of journal articles, and I wonder which knifemakers use it. Choose a factor below to start sorting. Blue Super and 1.2562 have higher edge retention but relatively low toughness. The reason is because sharpening and edge geometry will also greatly control properties. 14c28n is the most popular material for the knife: stainless steel and made by the Swedish company. I guess the question is whether toughness increases faster than edge retention decreases. Custom maker Brian Trudeau uses Nitro V, and Massdrops Perpetua design is the first production knife to sport it. Read more. But its lightyears ahead of the alternatives, specifically titanium-bladed knives. I always thought VG10 to be way more chippy/less tough compared cpms45vn. Its exceedingly tough and relatively hard, but its not stainless. 14C28N steel is known to offer among the best if not the best toughness in knife steels out there. Because of their good edge retention, these steels are quite versatile in folders and fixed blades. If you look at the chart you may notice that at high toughness levels if you increase edge retention by only a relatively small amount you get very big drops in toughness. On the positive side, they are very easy to forge and grind. Therefore, you cannot purchase the knife for use in corrosive environments. So presumably, wear resistance would be in the 3.5-4 range and toughness in the 5.5-6 range. But Ive found it lacking in hardness, even when compared to cheaper steels like AUS-8. With steels that have a small amount of carbide the size of the carbides can be kept small through processing (see the AEB-L micrograph earlier in the article).
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